The Rapture?
One thing I'm wondering about is why people say 'no rapture' because I thought that was the word they came up with for 'caught up' that Paul spoke about?
And I find all that makes so much sense to me.
Can you see the bridegroom allowing His bride to be besmirched when it gets really unclean on this earth?
Answer:
1Th 4:13-18 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. (14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. (15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (18) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
After thinking and praying on this matter, I am a little leery of this study. Talking about these verses, seems will take a volume. There is so much in these set of verses that have to be addressed as well as just the “rapture”. Each other side avenue which effects our thinking will probably need to be addressed.
These verses talk about: Death as a sleep, the resurrection of the sleeping saints, the second coming and another set of Christians who are not dead at this time.
So I will just start off with I believe death is a sleep (for all), and that no one can be resurrected until the second coming of Jesus. The first ones raised are faithful Christians of the past. Then there is a time lapse for those faithful Christians who are still alive at that time.
The following is an excerpt from a Bible Study that we had a few years back.
Paul was saying that there would come a time in history—a specific date in the future—when the dead in Christ, those who were sleeping in Jesus, would be changed to spirit life, but what about the newly consecrated who would need time to make their calling and election sure? That future date would not interfere with Christians who were still in the flesh. All of the sleeping saints would be raised as a group, but those down here, on this side of the veil, would be given time. In other words, verse 15 is talking about those who would die after “coming” and the time when those who are dead (sleeping) in Christ were raised but before the last members go off the earthly scene as a group.
Comment: Paul used the word “sleep” or “asleep” three times in this chapter to emphasize that death is a sleep until the time of the resurrection.
Paul introduced the subject matter of verses 13–15 not only because some of the consecrated had died but because the thought had become prevalent that the consecrated would live right into the Kingdom. Paul was trying to straighten out the misconception of the Thessalonians and also to set the order straight in regard to the consecrated being with Jesus. The sleeping saints would be with Christ ahead of those who were alive at his presence (Parousia—coming). Paul was assuring the Thessalonians that not only would those who died before Jesus’ return not miss out but they would be with Jesus first—they would receive their change prior to the ones who were alive and remaining. When some of the dedicated Christians died, the Thessalonians who had the wrong viewpoint wondered why they themselves were still alive, and they began to question their own relationship with the Lord.
Since the study isn’t on the 2nd coming, I won’t address those statements.
Verse 17 is probably the one used to prove the “rapture”. We see in the earlier verses the dead are raised at one time and to one place, and in verse 17 those that were not raised at the same time as the dead in Christ will at the time talked about in that verse join the first group.
We also see in this set of verses that it is not talking about the change at the same time, but to the same place. They will all be together in the air.
What we also see from these verses that when Jesus returns, everything doesn’t happen in that same instance, but there is a period of time, and this verse only describes the resurrection and how that happens at the Lord’s presence, and other scriptures describe other events, like what are the conditions on the earth when the second group is taken.
The bridegroom will take his bride before the “great time of trouble since there was a nation” will come upon the world. We are told to “pray that we be worthy to escape” the things coming. (Luke 21:36)
I do not find scripture however to support this floating off to heaven—as portrayed by many Christian groups. I do find that the remaining body members of the bride will go off the scene, the same way the rest of the body went off. Some died relatively peacefully, but most were put to death.
Most Christians are looking for the Antichrist—the beast to come back to power for one hour. (Rev. 13). All the Protestant reformers identified who this was. They all point directly and unwaveringly to the Papacy and the Catholic Church. This is why we are called “Protestants” in the first place. The word means to Protest against the Catholic faith.
Not to get too much into that subject, but it does have relevance to where I am coming from. I believe it is when this “hour of power” takes place—the one world government that all are talking about—under the Papacy, that the true Christians will be put to death. (I also do not believe this is the Time of Trouble/Great Tribulation spoken of in the Scripture, but this precedes it.)
Why? Because we resume our Protesting. What are we protesting about? Same thing John the Baptist did (and just has he was a type of Elijah—so are we—I think I discussed this on one of your questions in the past). We protest that “confederacy”. This also came up in some of your recent questions. We are told that when they say “peace and safety, sudden destruction” will follow. Since God has so graciously informed us of this, it is our duty as His ambassadors down here, that we proclaim that doom. Isaiah says:
Isa 8:11, 12 For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying, 12 Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.
We are not to be a part of this illicit union, just like John spoke out against Herod and Herodias’ illicit union, we too must “say ye not a confederacy,” that is we must condemn it. This confederacy goes hand in hand with the Mark of the Beast.
So using John the Baptist as a type of the end of the age (as well as other scriptures), as we give that message, they will want to silence us, and will put us to death. Possibly as a group—however that works out.
We can go into other scriptures if you want, but I just thought I would stop here, because I tend to get long winded
And I find all that makes so much sense to me.
Can you see the bridegroom allowing His bride to be besmirched when it gets really unclean on this earth?
Answer:
1Th 4:13-18 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. (14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. (15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (18) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
After thinking and praying on this matter, I am a little leery of this study. Talking about these verses, seems will take a volume. There is so much in these set of verses that have to be addressed as well as just the “rapture”. Each other side avenue which effects our thinking will probably need to be addressed.
These verses talk about: Death as a sleep, the resurrection of the sleeping saints, the second coming and another set of Christians who are not dead at this time.
So I will just start off with I believe death is a sleep (for all), and that no one can be resurrected until the second coming of Jesus. The first ones raised are faithful Christians of the past. Then there is a time lapse for those faithful Christians who are still alive at that time.
The following is an excerpt from a Bible Study that we had a few years back.
Paul was saying that there would come a time in history—a specific date in the future—when the dead in Christ, those who were sleeping in Jesus, would be changed to spirit life, but what about the newly consecrated who would need time to make their calling and election sure? That future date would not interfere with Christians who were still in the flesh. All of the sleeping saints would be raised as a group, but those down here, on this side of the veil, would be given time. In other words, verse 15 is talking about those who would die after “coming” and the time when those who are dead (sleeping) in Christ were raised but before the last members go off the earthly scene as a group.
Comment: Paul used the word “sleep” or “asleep” three times in this chapter to emphasize that death is a sleep until the time of the resurrection.
Paul introduced the subject matter of verses 13–15 not only because some of the consecrated had died but because the thought had become prevalent that the consecrated would live right into the Kingdom. Paul was trying to straighten out the misconception of the Thessalonians and also to set the order straight in regard to the consecrated being with Jesus. The sleeping saints would be with Christ ahead of those who were alive at his presence (Parousia—coming). Paul was assuring the Thessalonians that not only would those who died before Jesus’ return not miss out but they would be with Jesus first—they would receive their change prior to the ones who were alive and remaining. When some of the dedicated Christians died, the Thessalonians who had the wrong viewpoint wondered why they themselves were still alive, and they began to question their own relationship with the Lord.
Since the study isn’t on the 2nd coming, I won’t address those statements.
Verse 17 is probably the one used to prove the “rapture”. We see in the earlier verses the dead are raised at one time and to one place, and in verse 17 those that were not raised at the same time as the dead in Christ will at the time talked about in that verse join the first group.
We also see in this set of verses that it is not talking about the change at the same time, but to the same place. They will all be together in the air.
What we also see from these verses that when Jesus returns, everything doesn’t happen in that same instance, but there is a period of time, and this verse only describes the resurrection and how that happens at the Lord’s presence, and other scriptures describe other events, like what are the conditions on the earth when the second group is taken.
The bridegroom will take his bride before the “great time of trouble since there was a nation” will come upon the world. We are told to “pray that we be worthy to escape” the things coming. (Luke 21:36)
I do not find scripture however to support this floating off to heaven—as portrayed by many Christian groups. I do find that the remaining body members of the bride will go off the scene, the same way the rest of the body went off. Some died relatively peacefully, but most were put to death.
Most Christians are looking for the Antichrist—the beast to come back to power for one hour. (Rev. 13). All the Protestant reformers identified who this was. They all point directly and unwaveringly to the Papacy and the Catholic Church. This is why we are called “Protestants” in the first place. The word means to Protest against the Catholic faith.
Not to get too much into that subject, but it does have relevance to where I am coming from. I believe it is when this “hour of power” takes place—the one world government that all are talking about—under the Papacy, that the true Christians will be put to death. (I also do not believe this is the Time of Trouble/Great Tribulation spoken of in the Scripture, but this precedes it.)
Why? Because we resume our Protesting. What are we protesting about? Same thing John the Baptist did (and just has he was a type of Elijah—so are we—I think I discussed this on one of your questions in the past). We protest that “confederacy”. This also came up in some of your recent questions. We are told that when they say “peace and safety, sudden destruction” will follow. Since God has so graciously informed us of this, it is our duty as His ambassadors down here, that we proclaim that doom. Isaiah says:
Isa 8:11, 12 For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying, 12 Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.
We are not to be a part of this illicit union, just like John spoke out against Herod and Herodias’ illicit union, we too must “say ye not a confederacy,” that is we must condemn it. This confederacy goes hand in hand with the Mark of the Beast.
So using John the Baptist as a type of the end of the age (as well as other scriptures), as we give that message, they will want to silence us, and will put us to death. Possibly as a group—however that works out.
We can go into other scriptures if you want, but I just thought I would stop here, because I tend to get long winded
